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Ban on smoking bans OK'd
Lexington Herald-Leader ^ | Feb. 13, 2004 | Laura Yuen

Posted on 02/13/2004 10:25:28 AM PST by Republican Wildcat

Invoking the words of Ronald Reagan and the Founding Fathers, members of the Senate agriculture committee said they were upholding personal freedoms by unanimously approving a bill that would outlaw local smoking bans.

By a 10-0 vote, lawmakers embraced Sen. Dan Seum's proposal, which would prohibit cities from banning public smoking in areas other than local government buildings. Under the bill, cities could require businesses to post entrance signs that state their smoking policies, giving adults the choice whether to walk into a smoky environment, the committee members said.

Several supporters described the bill as "common sense."

"It's a compromise, but it's what we need to do around here to keep bad ideas from becoming law," said Sen. Damon Thayer, R-Georgetown, referring to ordinances such as Lexington's ban, which would be invalidated under the legislation.

Thayer cited a quote from Reagan about lost freedoms, and then asked: "What's next? ... Cell phone usage? Fast food and the amount we intake? Driving SUVs?" A woman in the audience snickered. "You laugh, but there are movements in this country, and even in this state, to try and affect those freedoms."

The bill now moves to the full Senate, where even legislators who want to defeat it acknowledge they may have problems. "That just means ... we have to fight harder to protect the communities' rights to make their own decisions," said state Sen. Ernesto Scorsone, D-Lexington.

Lexington vice mayor and smoking-ban proponent Mike Scanlon rejected any notion that the bill was a compromise, calling it a "common-nonsense" measure and "political window dressing."

Businesses are already perfectly free to post signs, and the bill would do nothing to level the playing field, ban advocates argued.

"It's a sham," said Scanlon, a restaurant businessman. "They're pretending to do something so they can say they did something and really do nothing. It's the ultimate political magical trick."

Many committee members prefaced their votes by explaining they would normally support the decisions of local governments. But public smoking bans are "trampling on the private property rights" of business owners, said committee chairman Sen. Ernie Harris, R-Crestwood.

The bill's sponsor, Seum, R-Louisville, pointed to oversize examples of signs that businesses would purchase for less than $25. A green light indicated smoking was OK; a yellow light stood for designated areas; and a red light indicated no smoking.

The hearing at times bordered on theatrical. Public health advocates repeatedly cheered Scanlon.

Harris quieted the outbursts: "This is not the House of Commons."

Scanlon got a frostier reception from Thayer. Scanlon's Georgetown Applebee's restaurant, Thayer contended, was one of the smokiest restaurants he has ever set foot in. That led to a rapid-fire exchange.

Thayer: "I'm guessing you allow smoking in Georgetown because there's an O'Charley's across the street, right? Dictated by market factors?"

Scanlon: "Dictated by, 'I've got to be even with the competition, or I can't -- '"

Thayer: "So you as a private business owner are letting the marketplace dictate to you, your business policies? Yes or no?"

Scanlon: "I'm being trapped by --"

Thayer: "Yes or no? You're letting the marketplace decide."

Scanlon: "Your honor, I'm not going to let you trap me into an answer I don't mean."

Thayer: "Well, then you've answered my question."

Lexington's wide-ranging law, which was passed in July but has been put on hold by the Kentucky Supreme Court, would prohibit smokers from lighting up in bingo halls, bars, restaurants and other indoor places open to the public.

The court will hear arguments in the case March 10.

But legislators said Lexington's ban sounded too harsh and could hurt businesses. If a farm housed an office where the public was welcome, smoking would be prohibited in that office, testified Gene McLean, a lobbyist for a group of business owners suing the city.

Many local businesspeople fear customers will take their money elsewhere. A mid-size city like Lexington could lose out on groups looking to hold national conventions, said Gwen Hart, event manager for Marriott's Griffin Gate Resort.

Ellen Hahn, a tobacco-control expert at the University of Kentucky, was outraged by the vote. Over the past few years, agricultural and health forces have united for a common purpose: a federal tobacco buyout.

"And in return, we get this?" Hahn said. "If the agricultural community thinks they're going to get the public health community's support on a federal buyout, they'd better think twice."

McLean called her position "sick and vindictive."

Sen. Tom Buford, R-Nicholasville, who did not sit on the committee but represents southern Fayette County, is leaning against the bill. But he said he thought it would likely pass in the Senate if it comes up for a vote.

"I'm not getting really anxious to support the bill," Buford said. "I don't like dictating to private businesses, but we as Republicans have always taken the stand that local control is what we always strive for."

State Sen. Alice Forgy Kerr, R-Lexington, did not respond to a message left with her Senate office. A spokeswoman for her congressional campaign said she could not reach Kerr, who was at a dinner event, for comment.

Although the bill is several steps away from final passage, many observers already are looking to Gov. Ernie Fletcher, who has the power to make any passed bill moot.

Fletcher spokeswoman Jeannie Lausche said he has yet to review the bill that was debated yesterday.

"But generally, in the past, he has said decisions like this are best left at the local level," she said.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; US: Kentucky
KEYWORDS: addicts; andscorpions; kentucky; pufflist; righttocleanair; smokingban; smokingbans; stinkysmokers
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1 posted on 02/13/2004 10:25:28 AM PST by Republican Wildcat
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To: SheLion; Gabz; metesky; CSM
Bump
2 posted on 02/13/2004 10:29:32 AM PST by Mears
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To: Republican Wildcat; *puff_list
What an old fashioned concept, letting people make decisions for themselves instead of having the nanny fedgov dictate what's best for them. We had a better society in the days when smoking bans would have been inconceivable.
3 posted on 02/13/2004 10:32:42 AM PST by tdadams
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To: MeekOneGOP; aCDNinUSA; AFMobster; BlueOneGolf; anoldafvet; Apache48; aposiopetic; April19; ...
ping
4 posted on 02/13/2004 10:33:16 AM PST by Republican Wildcat
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To: Republican Wildcat
Ellen Hahn, a tobacco-control expert at the University of Kentucky, was outraged by the vote.

To think she gets paid by our taxpayers to be a 'tobacco-control expert.' I wonder how many other positions like this the university system employs? They are complaining about budget cuts, but if they have positions like this it sounds like they already have more money than they know what to do with.

5 posted on 02/13/2004 10:39:30 AM PST by Republican Wildcat
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To: tdadams
What an old fashioned concept, letting people make decisions for themselves instead of having the nanny fedgov dictate what's best for them.

Ironically, in this case it's the nanny state telling the nanny local government not to be nannies to the individual.

6 posted on 02/13/2004 10:40:01 AM PST by JohnnyZ (Burkeman1 predicted Kerry would win NH. I told him he was a moron. Oops!)
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To: Republican Wildcat
Think I'll send this article to my state reps here in GA, since they are considering banning all smoking in public places, and private businesses.
7 posted on 02/13/2004 10:42:06 AM PST by eyespysomething (There is no threat. The Communists are not about to take over our McDonald hamburger stands. JFK '71)
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To: Republican Wildcat; *puff_list; SheLion

8 posted on 02/13/2004 10:42:11 AM PST by MeekOneGOP (The Democrats believe in CHOICE. I have choosen to vote STRAIGHT TICKET GOP for years !!)
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To: tdadams
What an old fashioned concept, letting people make decisions for themselves instead of having the nanny fedgov dictate what's best for them. We had a better society in the days when smoking bans would have been inconceivable.

I don't smoke, nor do I go into smoke-filled rooms, although I think a smoking ban is (to say the least) idiotic.

However, I do not like this kind of federal meddling in local laws. There is nothing in the Constitution that would prevent cities or states from issuing smoking bans.

9 posted on 02/13/2004 10:42:24 AM PST by MegaSilver
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To: Republican Wildcat
Ellen Hahn, a tobacco-control expert at the University of Kentucky, was outraged by the vote.

Outraged?...by the VOTE??...TOUGH!...control expert indeed.

FMCDH

10 posted on 02/13/2004 10:42:37 AM PST by nothingnew (The pendulum is swinging and the Rats are in the pit!)
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To: MegaSilver
This is the State Senate
11 posted on 02/13/2004 10:44:04 AM PST by Republican Wildcat
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To: JohnnyZ
I expect the nanny federales to tell the nanny state to stop telling the nanny local government to be nannies to the poor helpless individuals.

I hope that smoking restaurants will in the near future be treated with the same disgust as a restraurant which openly allowed chewing tobacco and spitting. But since I don't own the restaurants, my only moral option is to choose not to patronize them, not threaten them with government violence if they don't do what I want them to.

12 posted on 02/13/2004 10:45:25 AM PST by KarlInOhio (The idea of five Supreme Court justices appointed by President Kerry chills me to the bone.)
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To: MegaSilver
"However, I do not like this kind of federal meddling in local laws. There is nothing in the Constitution that would prevent cities or states from issuing smoking bans."

Ummm, this article is about Kentucky state law, nothing about federal law here.

State law is, by definition, local law.
13 posted on 02/13/2004 10:49:18 AM PST by AnalogReigns
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To: MegaSilver
There is nothing in the Constitution that would prevent cities or states from issuing smoking bans.

Right, but this is a state law, not a federal law. So, under the Tenth, the Kentucky legislature is passing a law restricting smoking bans.

14 posted on 02/13/2004 10:53:11 AM PST by Mr. Bird
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To: Republican Wildcat
tobacco-control expert at the University of Kentucky,

Sounds way too much like a "Diveeeerrrrrsity Officer" or Professor of "Wooooomens Studies".
15 posted on 02/13/2004 10:58:17 AM PST by johnb838 (Kerry is a traitor.)
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To: Republican Wildcat
This is the State Senate

Oops.

16 posted on 02/13/2004 11:12:32 AM PST by MegaSilver
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To: tdadams
Agreed. I really want a time machine - get me the Hell out of this era!

I wish that the TX legislature would pass a law like this - and I have never been a smoker, and never will be. I simply object to the assault on personal liberties (and wallets, because they're after the contents thereof as much as they're after the controlling people's actions).

17 posted on 02/13/2004 11:25:37 AM PST by Ancesthntr
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To: Mears; SheLion
"It's a sham," said Scanlon, a restaurant businessman. "They're pretending to do something so they can say they did something and really do nothing. It's the ultimate political magical trick."

Hmmm... I'm starting to think this guy has a horse in this race and sure enough:

Scanlon got a frostier reception from Thayer. Scanlon's Georgetown Applebee's restaurant, Thayer contended, was one of the smokiest restaurants he has ever set foot in. That led to a rapid-fire exchange.

Thayer: "I'm guessing you allow smoking in Georgetown because there's an O'Charley's across the street, right? Dictated by market factors?"

Scanlon: "Dictated by, 'I've got to be even with the competition, or I can't -- '"

Thayer: "So you as a private business owner are letting the marketplace dictate to you, your business policies? Yes or no?"

Scanlon: "I'm being trapped by --"

Thayer: "Yes or no? You're letting the marketplace decide."

Scanlon: "Your honor, I'm not going to let you trap me into an answer I don't mean."

Thayer: "Well, then you've answered my question."

Bwahahahaha! A non-smoking "level playing field" advocate gets exposed as a hypocrite! Delicious.

18 posted on 02/13/2004 11:26:53 AM PST by metesky ("Brethren, leave us go amongst them." Rev. Capt. Samuel Johnston Clayton - Ward Bond- The Searchers)
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To: tdadams
We had a better society in the days when smoking bans would have been inconceivable.

Well, ain't that the truth.

19 posted on 02/13/2004 5:35:31 PM PST by Madame Dufarge
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To: MegaSilver
I don't smoke, nor do I go into smoke-filled rooms, although I think a smoking ban is (to say the least) idiotic.

____________________

What is idiotic about smoking bans? Yes illegalization of smoking would be better but bans are a good start to protect those that don't want to be killed by smokers.
20 posted on 02/13/2004 9:20:17 PM PST by boxfr
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